Its primary audience is theological students, pastors and scholars. 31 Travis, Christian Hope and the Future of Man, p. 135. Hints exist in the creation account (man and woman made in the image of God, made for life and not mortality, made for communion with God, and so possessing something of God’s immortality) and in Ecclesiastes 3:11: ‘He has put a sense of past and future into their minds.’ It is argued that not only does this passage indicate that humans are created with a capacity to appreciate the eternal importance of the world, but also have a ‘desire for eternal things which in turn implies a spiritual dimension and nature in men’.25 The implication of this argument is that, as human immortality is assumed in Scripture, those passages which speak of God having immortality alone are referring to a quality of life that God possesses and subsequently gives to the redeemed, rather than to an expression of duration of existence. Pro is asking for evidence that the soul survives after being the constant for human life. Others, convinced that this refers to the final state, then argue that physical pain must be in mind! Finally, if Conditional Immortality upholds these qualities about the soul, then Socrates’ arguments for an immortal soul generates some complex questions Conditional Immortality needs to account for. Therefore, the soul must be immortal. God is not perceptible: we can neither see God nor destroy God. The Pro can’t reconcile this discrepancy under his own logic, but the answer is simple. Using this view alone, a soul is something that, through the salvation of Jesus Christ, can live forever while retaining a continued existence (i.e. If one wishes to use hell as a departure point for preaching the gospel (and that is a heavily disputed point), then the prospect of annihilation still engenders fear. His explanation and use of definitions is likely to confuse, as he distances himself from the label of conditional immortality. He argues that, contrary to what the various biblical scholars/theologians I’ve cited argue, Christian beliefs do come directly from the Bible. This vindictiveness is incompatible with the love of God in Christ.26, Whatever anyone says, unending torment speaks to me of sadism, not justice.27. Perhaps the strongest argument used by traditionalists is the idea that those in hell are continually impenitent. How can a soul be made in the image of God, be immeasurable yet knowable like all other “not perceivable” things, and yet be destructible? The first was by John Wenham, in The Goodness Of God,5 where, in a chapter dealing with the moral difficulties of believing in hell, he presented conditionalism as a possible option. But, when they sinned, God separated them from the Tree of Life so they would eventually die. Can God ever be imperfect? This doesn’t automatically mean that an idea such as an immortal soul can’t exist within the teachings of the Bible. 1:17; 6:16); he reveals it and gives it to us through the gospel.’23 Helm admits ‘that Scripture does not teach the immortality of the soul in so many words’.24 However, sufficient teaching on hell exists to make the case irrelevant. Once again, there are other issues that could have been discussed. Unfortunately, if he is convinced that immortality is a gift of salvation, then eternal punishment (the punishment of something which would be immortal) could not follow from conditional immortality thus stated. 3. Conversely, Fernando replies that this use in Judith shows that the natural interpretation of fire in the Jewish mind was concerned with pain, not destruction.11 Stott maintains that it is reasonable to assume that although both the worm and the fire are everlasting, the consequence may still be destruction. However, it seems right that we should never be afraid of feeling the force of our emotions, as long as they are never allowed to be the overriding force. 2. In the debates, immortality is usually taken to mean the inability of the person to perish. I hope that in this article conditionalism is given a fair hearing at least. There seems to be some clash around the parameters of this debate. However, if annihilation is true, a gospel still remains to be taught, and it is a gospel that is just as desperately needed. They could live indefinitely as long as they had access to the Tree of Life. There are logical properties the soul must have in order to be called a “soul” that Conditional Immorality fails to explain, and that the traditional view accounts for. Pro is asking for evidence that the soul survives after being the constant for human life. 2 The varying uses of terminology are helpfully explored by Kendall S. Harmon in ‘The Case Against Conditionalism: A Response to Edward William Fudge’, in Nigel M. de S. Cameron (ed. No religion exists within a vacuum. Unfortunately, we can’t accept both of these premises without creating an interesting paradox. For this section I depend largely on two of Stott’s four main arguments as they are presented in a helpful summary fashion (the other two, concerning justice and universalism, come under our heading of ‘the theological case’). Second, the Pro argued that many of the verses I've presented have been misinterpreted since some only mention eternal fire instead of external survival. If my soul can’t retain the things that defined my experiences in life, then my resurrection would be like hitting the reset button. Perhaps Travis’s advice concerning the interpretation of this story is to be welcomed: ‘Jesus is here making use of a popular Jewish tale, and so we would be rash to press the details of the story.’16. The first concerns the biblical texts, and how these should be interpreted. What about the undying worm and unquenching fire of Mark 9:48? In laymen’s terms, this argument is simple: God has the power to grant the human soul immortality, but this isn’t guaranteed (or natural for the soul). The idea of an immortal soul found its way into Christian thought primarily from the teachings of Socrates and Plato7. If a body is capable of life, death, and life again through resurrection, like a human is capable of waking, sleeping, and waking again as long as his body continues to exist, then how can anything move through death without the constant of an immortal soul? Lewis, The Problem of Pain (London: Geoffrey Bles, 1940), p. 94. Why Conditional Immortality is true and "perish" really means "perish." 8 See especially Clark Pinnock, A Wideness in God’s Mercy: The Finality of Jesus Christ in a World of Religions (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1992), and ‘The Destruction of the Finally Impenitent’, Criswell Theological Review 4/2 (1990), 243–259. It seems that many of its advocates can quite rightly be labelled as pillars of conservative orthodoxy. To agree with something on the Pro suggests arguing for it, as the Con has been challenged to argue for an opposing idea. The work of David Powys34 has attempted to demonstrate that taking the inter-testamental material into consideration can aid our understanding of the NT texts and thus lead to an annihilationist position. Early Christianity was influenced both from its Hebrew roots3, and ancient Greek philosophy4. Here is a clear indication of the difficulty in knowing how this text should be handled and where we should start from in its interpretation. And he co-authored erasing hell with Francis Chan A number of years ago, and at the time, they both landed on the doctrine of eternal torment. The following is an examination of what is commonly called "conditional immortality" -- that a person's "immortality" is conditioned on receiving eternal life. There is a gift we get from believing the gospel; it is called "everlasting life" (John 3:16). This time, we will consider a number of challenges to this understanding including: Philippians 1.23 “depart and be with Christ” 1 Corinthians 5.8 “absent from Read more about Theology 4 – Challenging Conditional Immortality … So both the language of destruction and the imagery of fire seem to point to annihilation.20. For the perishable must clothe itsel… Do all these faiths actually believe in Conditional Immortality? However, most conditionalists do still wish to emphasize this—judgment and punishment still exist, yet justice for conditionalists seems to be administered fairly, as the punishment appears not to be out of proportion with the sin. Travis states that a better translation would be ‘the punishment of the age to come’ and ‘the life of the age to come’.14 The traditionalist response has been to wonder whether the word ‘eternal’ could change meaning so quickly in such close proximity. 1 Timothy 6:16, and God alone has immortality 2 Timothy 1:9-10, God brought life and immortality to light through the gospel Jude 6-7, angels and the wicked undergoing punishment of eternal fire However, let’s look at the Pro’s original challenge in Round One: “I, as the Pro in this debate, agree with this idea [Conditional Immortality] and challenge Con to defend the traditional idea that the soul is naturally immortal.”. 5:18; 11:32; 1 Cor. If we accept this logic, then we might as well erase Socrates from the field of philosophy altogether. For instance, the rich man in the story refers to his physical body by begging Abraham to send Lazarus to dip water onto his tongue. On the annihilation side, Fudge believes that even if conditional immortality were true according to Scripture, the existence of positive teaching on eternal conscious torment would convince him otherwise—if it existed. Given the common idea of an immortal soul within many forms of Christianity, and Pro framing this debate using Christian interpretations, I will use a mainstream, Christian interpretation of immortal souls. Their existence must serve some purpose, and once that is admitted the view that their eternal punishment glorifies the justice of God seems perfectly logical.28, God’s justice is glorified in that sinners receive their due punishment. Connect with Preston. By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. First, such argument inevitably leads to a diminishing of the seriousness of sin. 14 S. Travis, I Believe in the Second Coming of Jesus (London: Hodder & Stoughton, 1988), p. 199. A note of caution must be inserted here—some argue from the physical pains to conclude that this must refer to the final state. We have described the position of conditionalism, which attacks one of the premises of the traditional understanding of hell on the grounds that the wicked will not be given immortality and hence shall not suffer in torment for ever. In other words, Christian beliefs aren’t born solely and directly out of the Bible. 3 See especially L. Froom, The Conditionalist Faith of our Fathers (Washington: Review & Heal Publishing Association, 2 vols, 1965, 1966), and E. Fudge, The Fire That Consumes (Texas: Providential Press, 1982) (revised and compressed edition—Carlisle: Paternoster, 1994, in which Fudge responds to his critics). In the New Testament, a few passages that directly mention the presence of Hell include, 3. Yes, Christians believe in the immortality of the soul. 21 Stephen H. Travis, Christian Hope and the Future of Man (Leicester: IVP, 1980), p. 135. Traditionalists respond in a number of ways. This was in response to the disagreement between Christian beliefs and the biblical vacuum, where I was arguing that the very source of Christian beliefs had Greek influences. For conditionalists, memories of the lost remain, but perhaps heaven contains healing and understanding. This debate has been configured to only allow voters who meet the requirements set by the debaters. Now then, the Pro seems to recognize this point, and even highlights the fact that the New Testament was originally written in Greek. This issue is connected with the third: how can the redeemed in heaven be unaffected by the existence of the wicked in hell? Let's revist the Pro's original argument: "There is no evidence that the Socrates found in Plato's writings holds the views shared by the real Socrates. 32 See Fernando, Crucial Questions About Hell, p. 69. In a religious debate such as this, the argument would be “this knowledge comes from God”. So, be warned: hell is an emotional subject, but we must let the Scriptures be the final arbiter on the truth of the matter. 20:14). Preston and Chris is diving into the topic of Annihilation or Conditional Immortality. However, the verb can be in a middle form, and then has the connotation of perishing (e.g. 7 An explanatory note must be made with reference to Stott’s position. 2. 22 On this whole area, see the work of J. Cooper, Body, Soul and the Life Everlasting (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1989); see also Powys, ‘The Hermeneutics of “Hell” ’. If the scope of this debate were just around the biblicalness of Conditional Immortality, I, as the Con, would simply have to “disprove” this position, which doesn’t require defending the traditional idea of an immortal soul. More recently, conditionalism and annihilationism have been given a wider public airing as a result of two important works. 2 Pet. Annihilationism, which is usually associated with conditional immortality, states that the wicked will not suffer conscious torment for ever, but that after death and judgment they will be destroyed, ceasing to exist. Conditionalists have never argued against the concept of human immortality. 2:13). He notes that this refers to the devil, the beast, and the false prophet—plausibly interpreted as powers of evil in the world, rather than as individual persons, and thus offering the interpretation that all evil and resistance to God will ultimately be destroyed. This suggests that the soul is capable of retaining knowledge. 12 J. Blanchard, Whatever Happened to Hell? I laid out a case for conditional immortality from several important texts. Since eternal damnation implies an immortal soul is required to experience an eternity of punishment, Conditional Immortality must reject this view. Stott’s first argument is from language. Kvanvig maintains that even if the fate of those in hell is extinction, hell remains morally problematic because the sentence of being eternally separated from God is still inflicted for a finite amount of sin. ... You can find Chris's debate with Al Mohler here. Keep in mind, I demonstrate the second point in round two through my example of the Westminster Confession, which the Pro hasn’t challenged. Jude 7 And don't forget Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring towns, which were filled with immorality and every kind of sexual perversion. 168. Yet Christ’s atonement was made by a finite event, his death on the cross—thus an infinite punishment would, according to the conditionalist argument, appear to be inappropriate.29. First, it’s important to recognize that as Con, I’ve been asked to “. Do we perform good deeds to avoid hell? Turning to a broader theological position, many philosophers of religion have recently been considering the doctrine of hell. 18 D. Pawson, The Road to Hell (London: Hodder & Stoughton, 1992), pp. Froom claims that conditional immortality was generally accepted in the early church until its thinkers tried to wed Plato’s doctrine of the immortality of the soul to the teaching of the Bible.”. The apparent illusion of justice in the act of destroying the person hides the fact that annihilation takes away any dignity the person may have. To ask the Con to defend this idea from the bible alone, when this traditional view was not strictly born in the Bible, would be an extremely abusive act on the Pro’s part. Although justifications may be provided for this apparent problem, it seems that they must be independent of the annihilationist debate. Humans are born knowing (subconsciously) how to do certain things: cry, eat, smile, sleep, etc. God is victorious in that he has wiped out all evil and resistance to his will for ever. But when I read those books of the Platonists I was taught by them to seek incorporeal truth, so I saw your 'invisible things, understood by the things that are made’. 20:10). 5 J. Wenham, The Goodness of God (Leicester: IVP, 1974); the work also provides helpful warnings concerning decisions on the issue, and a brief history of how Wenham learnt of the doctrine; the chapter dealing with hell has been revised and stated less cautiously in The Enigma of Evil (Guildford: Eagle, 1993). Thus, Stott states that: ‘According to Scripture only God possesses immortality in himself (1 Tim. In contrast, conditional immortality has a much shorter history, and the suspicion that this is a ‘new’ idea has caused evangelicals, whichever position they take on the debate, to be hesitant when discussing the matter. A plenary talk given by Chris Date of Rethinking Hell at the 2016 international Rethinking Hell Conference in London. In other words, Christian beliefs aren’t born solely and directly out of the Bible. Annihilationism is thus virtually a corollary of conditional immortality, for if immortality were inherent, then it follows that annihilation would not be a satisfactory explanation of hell. Furthermore, my evidence above highlights that many Christian historians and theologians found divine knowledge and the pursuit of spiritual truth to be at the very core of this philosophy. The Traditional View (hitherto called ECT), can only be true if we borrow from Platoinic/Greek philosophy and mythology. I’d be happy to, if he had in fact written anything down to begin with. However, the conditionalist replies: what dignity is there in eternal suffering—surely all dignity of those in hell has already been destroyed? It is my belief that traditionalists have often not listened to the arguments themselves. Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne, he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.". Perhaps sin against God requires infinite punishment, because God is an infinite being. I demonstrated how the Pro’s belief that Christian beliefs come solely from the Bible contradicts both contemporary theologian literature, and the reality of mainstream Christian faiths that believe in an immortal soul. A Debate on the State of the Dead.pdf (888k) Robert Joseph T., 28 Jul 2013, 04:42. v.1. Second, science has been working on the whole “evidence” and “proof” thing for many Christian beliefs… starting with the proof of God’s existence. Stott points out that Jesus does not mention everlasting pain when he uses the imagery of Isaiah 66:24 here, whereas Judith 16:17 does use such language. 15 Note that David Powys has proposed a new interpretation of this material, which he believes was used to attack the Pharisees’ understanding of the post-mortem state. This is not the place for that conversation. The point remains: no reset button is pressed when you get into heaven... if this button was pressed, then you'd have no recollection of the actions/reasons that got you into heaven in the first place. However, does not the doctrine of annihilation allow the full force of the supposedly universalist verses (such as Rom. Some traditionalists argue that the redeemed will in fact agree with God’s judgment and glorify him for it, even over the loss of our loved ones.32 Perhaps perfect joy and regret can co-exist in the light of God’s glory, or maybe the life of heaven entails learning to live with the realization that not all wanted to embrace God’s love. Therefore, Conditional Immortality correctly affirms the biblical position that the souls of the lost people will all be destroyed at the end of the age. They are related yet distinct. ), Universalism and the Doctrine of Hell, pp. “We recognize that the interpretation of hell in terms of conditional immortality is a significant minority evangelical view. One comes from the other: death comes from life and vice versa. As mentioned above, the basic premises of the Christian religion (the wage of sin is death, the redeeming sacrifice of Jesus Christ, etc.) Pro raises a very important question: where in the Bible does this idea come from? 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